Hungary will not back down on anti-LGBTQI legislation even if EU funds dry up - Szijjártó

About the Pegasus spyware scandal

An investigation by 17 investigative journalism outlets found thousands of phone numbers around the globe which were targeted with Israeli NSO Group’s software Pegasus. One of the world’s most powerful surveillance tools, which the company sells only to national governments and national organisations, is supposed to be used to track down terrorists and top criminals. However, the collaborative investigation uncovered that multiple governments, including that of Hungary led by Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, are actively using Pegasus to target political opponents, primarily journalists, politicians, and businessmen.

The 300 Hungarian targets include:

• four journalists (2 at investigative outlet Direkt36, a former journalist of liberal weekly Hvg.hu, and one who has chosen to remain anonymous);
• a Hungarian photographer who collaborated with an American journalist covering the Russian-led International Investment Bank’s affairs in Budapest,
• Zoltán Varga, owner of Central Media Group Plc., who has allegedly faced multiple attacks from government circles, as well as other businessmen who joined Varga in a dinner meeting in 2018. Among these visitors was Attila Chikán, an economics professor and former Minister of the Economy in the first Orbán government, known for becoming very critical of the Fidesz leader, whose phone number was also found on the list,
• the son of former oligarch Lajos Simicska and a close confidante of Simicska. Simicska initiated an open media campaign against the government during the elections of 2018,
• one of Central European University’s international students, Adrien Beaudeuin, who was arrested in 2018 for taking part in an anti-governmental protest.

Read the report published jointly by Direkt36 and Telex.hu here.

“We are not aware of any alleged data collection claimed by the request,” a Hungarian government spokesperson said, in response to detailed questions about the targeting of Szabolcs Panyi at Direkt36 and others.

“Hungary is a democratic state governed by the rule of law, and as such, when it comes to any individual it has always acted and continues to act in accordance with the law in force. In Hungary, state bodies authorised to use covert instruments are regularly monitored by governmental and non-governmental institutions.”

The government communications office replied to the allegations with questions of its own:

“Have you asked the same questions of the governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Germany or France? In the case you have, how long did it take for them to reply and how did they respond? Was there any intelligence service to help you formulate the questions?”

When asked about the Pegasus scandal, Szijjártó replied that

I did not and do not have knowledge of such type of data collection being underway in Hungary. But I do not even need to be aware because there is a clear legal order on the method of authorisation and execution of surveillance.

He stressed that there must be a serious reason to order such surveillance [wiretap], but assured that no one goes under surveillance in Hungary just for being a journalist or for being critical with the government.

It is the duty of the secret services operating in the country to defend the security of the Hungarian nation therefore they are continuously monitoring what Hungarian people criminal organisations, terror organisations [or] foreign secret services are trying to ensnare and possibly use to pursue external interests in Hungary, whether terror organisations [and] foreign secret services are trying to infiltrate Hungary via its citizens, and in that case investigations [and] surveillances could be warranted.

The minister stressed that no one has been under surveillance since 2010 merely for the profession they had, but

if someone could be a threat to the security and interests of the Hungarian nation due to some external influence […] surveillance becomes possible.

Szijjártó underlined that this is a matter of national security and never discussed publicly, adding that the deployment of the tools required is a technical issue. He reminded that the spyware was sold in about 45 countries.

When asked if the journalists and others were under surveillance due to national security reasons, he replied that he personally has no knowledge if the persons in question were in fact under surveillance or not and who gets that type of attention when they do.

He reiterated that his ministerial duties do not cover this area, either the initiation or the authorisation of such surveillance.

When reminded that the software is regarded such a serious cyberweapon that NSO can only export Pegasus to other countries with the permission of Israel’s Ministry of Defense, and asked if he had taken part in this process, Szijjártó replied that he had not, reiterating that even if there had been such an acquision it is outside his jurisdiction, and does not supervise any secret service that wanted or bought such a tool. "I’ve never met with NSO or this phenomenon before," he said.

Hungary has one of the loosest legislative frameworks in Europe for the authorisation of surveillance. There is no judicial oversight if the request is made for national security reasons; only the signature of the minister of justice is required, The Guardian reported.

Information released to the Hungarian outlet 168 Óra under a freedom of information request showed the justice minister, Judit Varga, approved 1,285 surveillance requests in 2020, which includes all forms of surveillance, not just Pegasus.

In an earlier interview with a Pegasus project partner, Varga said it was a “provocation” to ask whether she would authorise surveillance of a journalist, but said “there are so many dangers to the state everywhere” when asked why she had approved so many requests. The justice ministry did not respond to detailed allegations about Hungary’s use of Pegasus.

In connection with the Pegasus scandal she later remarked: “Don’t be ridiculous! Every country needs such tools.”

Szijjártó said large countries probably develop their own special software, while smaller ones need to procure them from elsewhere, so

there’s nothing surprising about Hungary buying such [software] from abroad.

Post-crisis economic stimulus

Szijjártó is also the head of the task force tasked with restarting the economy after [during?] the coronavirus pandemic. When asked about its manoeuvring room and available funding, he said the government has so far approved all of the task force’s 21 proposals.

The minister noted that he welcommed this position as over the last few years his ministry had tabled several proposals that would have eliminated obstacles from the system that were either superfluous or actually stymied economic growth, while bureaucratic impediments are now less significant due to the ‘life and death’ global competition.

Asked about future investment incentives Szijjártó highlighted that the Hungarian Investment Promotion Agency (HIPA) has signed agreements on 330 investment projects to the tune of EUR 3.7 billion, nearly HUF 1.2 trillion, creating 7,600 new jobs.

He reminded that the deal with corporations was that the state would cover half of their capacity expansion or technological development if they pledged not to let anyone go, which helped save 270,000 jobs.

Data for the first four months of the year suggest that the Hungarian economy can easily set a new export record

, said Szijjáró. The country has set a new record every year since 2014, with exports exceeding EUR 100 billion every year in the last four years.

"We expect an all-time high in exports, to the tune of about EUR 110 to 112 billion."

This would land Hungary on the 33rd or 34th position in the global rankings in respect of export value. The country closed on the 11th spot last year in terms of export as a share of GDP.

The minister highlighted that the automotive sector reported a 35% growth in the first five months, and that more than 30% of manufacturing output is generated by this sector. He also said that the focus is and will remain on expanding electric vehicle production capacities.

"We’re going in the right direction, as the European Commission has approved a state aid to SK Innovation," said the minister.

This, added Szijjártó, is a HUF 238 billion investment, with 1,000 new jobs to be created. The state pitches in with a handsome grant of HUF 28.5 bn. Following the positive experience it had in Komárom, the company has brought the largest greenfield investment of the Hungarian economy to Iváncsa; a project worth USD 2.3 bn (cc. HUF 700 billion).

These, the minister said, indicate the success of Hungary’s efforts to improve its investment environment.

Asked whether the announced package of measures will solve the problem of labour shortage or new measures will be required, Szijjártó replied that local corporations have grown strong enough in the last decade to carry out investments and retain their employees. He highlighted that there are 47,000 more employees in Hungary now than a year ago.

The minister reminded that large foreign-owned businesses will now be allowed to employ foreign workers up to 20% of their total headcount instead of the previous 10% cap. He explained this does not mean the government has taken away 10% worth of jobs from Hungarians, because they already have jobs, while labour shortage is an impediment of expansion for these large foreign-owned companies.

If they face a shortage of labour and cannot grow larger here, they will cut staff here and go invest somewhere else.

The measure gives them the opportunity to grow, and it also helps retain Hungarian jobs, he explained further. The government also allowed qualified temporary work agencies to take part in preparations to employ workers arriving from third countries.

This would obviously be the wrong policy if the rate of unemployment was not below 4.0%. This low unemployment rate, however, means that people can work if they want to, while it is also a barrier to growth.

When asked if there’s any plan to direct new foreign investments towards higher added value projects, Szijjártó replied that there are two main directions when it comes to investments: regionalisation and an increase to the technological level and added value.

In order to tackle the regional differences, non-refundable cash grants by the government are now available for corporate investments in seven counties (vs. five earlier) from the lower limit of EUR 5 million. Previously, this opportunity was available only in the case of investments over the EUR 10 million mark in 14 counties.

"This should persuade companies wishing to invest here to choose counties where the jobless rate is higher than the national average (Somogy, Baranya, Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok, the Szabolcs region, Békés)," said Szijjártó.

The other direction is elevating the technological level in the automotive sector, the electronics industry and at services centres. As employers of high added value Szijjártó mentioned BlackRock, GE, British Telecom and Vodafone (the latter two brought large services centres to Hungary).

As regards the programme aimed at the expansion of Hungarian companies abroad Szijjártó noted that the Hungarian economy is among the most open economies in the world, and the country’s export activity determines how the whole economy performs.

A significant share of Hungarian companies have reached a point where they cannot further increase their exports without creating some kind of local presence abroad. That is why the cabinet decided to provide a support of up to 50% intensity for corporations that have hit this ceiling and want to build a plant on a foreign market. The aid is maximised at HUF 4 billion per company.

"Our expectation is that they increase the revenue of their domestic unit by the size of the grant, either by transferring the profit home, or by having their foreign unit order some activity or service from the Hungarian entity," added the minister.

Foreign-owned companies will always take some of their profit home and re-invest only a part of it in Hungary. This is supposed to be counterbalanced by Hungarian companies set up abroad sending some of their profit home, said Szijjártó.

Hungary will not back down

We have also asked the minister how large Hungary’s economic growth can be if the EU turns off the money tap due to various disputes and an infringement procedure opened against the country.

Let us not be under any illusions, European institutions in Brussels have proven time and again that they use financial issues for blackmail. We have fought this battle countless times. Institutions of Brussels are no stranger to linking political and financial matters, and this is the case right now.

"We have agreed practically on everything before, and they broke it all off after the adoption of the anti-paedophile and child protection law.

"They are clearly pulling far-fetched cases I would not call arguments, but the message is clear: as long as the paedophile law is in effect, we are not given access to the RRF [Recovery and Resilience Facility]. But it’s okay, because the Hungarian state is in a well enough state to be able to develop dynamically even without these EU funds and reach 5.5% growth by the end of this year."

If we gave in to Brussels now, they would come upon another case, so let’s not think repealing this law would be the end of it.

"The fundamental problem of Brussels is that Hungary has a stable one-party governance with a stable and secure parliamentary and social support, which practically makes it extremely difficult to successfully intervene from the outside."

We are willing to engage in this debate, because both European and national legislations are on our side.

The fundamental European charter [Editor’s note: the minister likely referred to the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union] stipulates that parents have the right to ensure the education of their children are in harmony with their pedagogical, psychological and social approach, he said.

Article 14 – Right to education (excerpt)

"The freedom to found educational establishments with due respect for democratic principles and the right of parents to ensure the education and teaching of their children in conformity with their religious, philosophical and pedagogical convictions shall be respected, in accordance with the national laws governing the exercise of such freedom and right."

"The other thing is that education falls within national competence, so Brussels cannot dictate what to teach Hungarian children in kindergartens and schools. The Hungarian economy, however, is strong, we cannot be blackmailed therefore we are holding on and will not amend the law despite the pressure from the EU."

Asked how the fourth wave in the coronavirus pandemic can affect the Hungarian economy, Szijjártó responded that lockdown measures always entail economic damages, and that even more recently when restrictions were not that tight the economy was losing EUR 30 million per day, not to mention social losses.

He stressed that about 30% of the population have still not been inoculated against SARS-CoV-2 and their responsibility is huge, urging them to take up a vaccine.

Responding to proposals that vaccination against coronavirus could be made mandatory in some way, Szijjártó said it may not be the best way.

There can always be health issues, individual considerations [against vaccination] so I personally would not make it mandatory.

When asked about Russia’s Sputnik V still not green-lighted by either the World Health Organisation (WHO) or the European Medicines Agency (EMA), the minister said the vaccine had been scrutinised by Hungarian experts (who had even travelled to Russia to see if everything was in order with the vaccine), and that the approvals have not been given yet due to political reasons.

Cover photo: Portfolio/Ákos